EPA ban on wood stoves is freezing out rural America

But the larger problem is the Sue and Settle sweetheart lawsuits through which Greens dictate policy.

  • woodstove

It seems that even wood isn’t green or renewable enough anymore. The EPA has recently banned the production and sale of 80% of America’s current wood-burning stoves, the oldest heating method known to mankind and mainstay of rural homes and many of our nation’s poorest residents. The agency’s stringent one-size-fits-all rules apply equally to heavily air-polluted cities and far cleaner plus typically colder off-grid wilderness areas such as large regions of Alaska and the American West.

While the EPA’s most recent regulations aren’t altogether new, their impacts will nonetheless be severe. Whereas restrictions had previously banned wood-burning stoves that didn’t limit fine airborne particulate emissions to 15 micrograms per cubic meter (μg/m3) of air, the change will impose a maximum 12 μg/m3 limit. To put this amount in context, the EPA estimates that secondhand tobacco smoke in a closed car can expose a person to 3,000-4,000 μg/m3 of particulates.

Most wood stoves that warm cabin and home residents from coast to coast cannot meet that standard. Older stoves that don’t cannot be traded in for updated types, but instead must be rendered inoperable, destroyed, or recycled as scrap metal.

fireplaceThe impacts of the EPA ruling will affect many families. According to the U.S. Census Bureau’s 2011 survey statistics, 2.4 million American housing units (12% of all homes) burned wood as their primary heating fuel, compared with 7% that depended upon fuel oil.

Local governments in some states have gone even further than the EPA, banning not only the sale of noncompliant stoves, but even their use as fireplaces. As a result, owners face fines for infractions. Puget Sound, Washington, is one such location. Montréal, Canada, proposes to eliminate all fireplaces within its city limits.

Only weeks after the EPA enacted its new stove rules, attorneys general of seven states sued the agency to crack down on wood-burning water heaters as well. The lawsuit was filed by Connecticut, Maryland, Massachusetts, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island, and Vermont, all predominantly Democrat states. Claiming that the new EPA regulations didn’t go far enough to decrease particle pollution levels, the plaintiffs cited agency estimates that outdoor wood boilers will produce more than 20% of wood-burning emissions by 2017. A related suit was filed by the environmental group EarthJustice.

Did EPA require a motivational incentive to tighten its restrictions? Sure, about as much as Br’er Rabbit needed to persuade Br’er Fox to throw him into the briar patch. This is but another example of EPA and other government agencies working with activist environmental groups to sue and settle on claims that afford leverage to enact new regulations which they lack statutory authority to otherwise accomplish.

“Sue and Settle “ practices, sometimes referred to as “friendly lawsuits,” are cozy deals through which far-left radical environmental groups file lawsuits against federal agencies wherein court-ordered “consent decrees” are issued based upon a prearranged settlement agreement they collaboratively craft together in advance behind closed doors. Then, rather than allowing the entire process to play out, the agency being sued settles the lawsuit by agreeing to move forward with the requested action both they and the litigants want.

And who pays for this litigation? All too often we taxpayers are put on the hook for legal fees of both colluding parties. According to a 2011 GAO report, this amounted to millions of dollars awarded to environmental organizations for EPA litigations between 1995 and 2010. Three “Big Green” groups received 41% of this payback, with Earthjustice accounting for 30% ($4,655,425). Two other organizations with histories of lobbying for regulations EPA wants while also receiving agency fundng are the American Lung Association (ALA) and the Sierra Club.

In addition, the Department of Justice forked over at least $43 million of our money defending the EPA in court between 1998 and 2010. This didn’t include money spent by the EPA for its legal costs in connection with those ripoffs, because the EPA doesn’t keep track of its attorneys’ time on a case-by-case basis.

The U.S. Chamber of Commerce has concluded that Sue and Settle rulemaking is responsible for many of EPA’s “most controversial, economically significant regulations that have plagued the business community for the past few years.”  Included are regulations on power plants, refineries, mining operations, cement plants, chemical manufacturers, and a host of other industries. Such consent decree-based rulemaking enables EPA to argue to Congress: “The court made us do it.”

Directing special attention to these congressional end run practices, Louisiana Senator David Vitter, top Republican on the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee, has launched an investigation. Last year he asked his Louisiana Attorney General Buddy Caldwell to join with AG’s of 13 other states who filed a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) seeking all correspondence between EPA and a list of 80 environmental, labor union, and public interest organizations that have been party to litigation since the start of the Obama Administration.

Other concerned and impacted parties have little influence over such court procedures and decisions. While the environmental group is given a seat at the table, outsiders who are most impacted are excluded, with no opportunity to object to the settlements. No public notice about the settlement is released until the agreement is filed in court…after the damage has been done.

In a letter to Caldwell, Senator Vitter wrote: “The collusion between federal bureaucrats and the organizations entering consent agreements under a shroud of secrecy represents the antithesis of a transparent government, and your participation in the FOIA request will help Louisianans understand the process by which these settlements were reached.”

Fewer citizens would challenge the EPA’s regulatory determinations were it not for its lack of accountability and transparency in accomplishing through a renegade pattern of actions what they cannot achieve through democratic legislative processes.

A recent example sets unachievable CO2 emission limits for new power plants. As I reported in my January 14 column, a group within the EPA’s own Science Advisory Board (SAB) determined that the studies upon which that regulation was based had never been responsibly peer reviewed, and that there was no evidence that those limits can be accomplished using available technology.

Compared with huge consequences of the EPA’s regulatory war on coal, the fuel source that provides more than 40% of America’s electricity, a clamp-down AKforeston humble residential wood-burning stoves and future water heaters may seem to many people as a merely a trifling or inconsequential matter. That is, unless it happens to significantly affect your personal life.

As a Washington Times editorial emphasized, the ban is of great concern to many families in cold remote off-grid locations. It noted, for example, that “Alaska’s 663,000 square miles is mostly forestland, offering residents and abundant source of affordable firewood. When county officials floated a plan to regulate the burning of wood, residents were understandably inflamed.”

Quoting Representative Tammie Wilson speaking to the Associated Press, the Times reported: “Everyone wants clean air. We just want to make sure that we can also heat our homes.” Wilson continued: “Rather than fret over the EPA’s computer–model–based warning about the dangers of inhaling soot from wood smoke, residents have more pressing concerns on their minds as the immediate risk of freezing when the mercury plunges.”

And speaking of theoretical computer model-based warnings, where’s that global warming when we really need it?

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About the Author: Larry Bell

Larry Bell

CFACT Advisor Larry Bell heads the graduate program in space architecture at the University of Houston. He founded and directs the Sasakawa International Center for Space Architecture. He is also the author of "Climate of Corruption: Politics and Power Behind the Global Warming Hoax."

  • Bob Weber

    OK CFACT gimme the facts: when did this happen? When does it go into effect?I get so tired of reading articles that don’t report the basics: who what when and where are left out too often.

    • Spanky Quigman

      That’s because CFACT is actually selling C-sorta-FACTs. There’s a grain of truth (the EPA is mandating that starting in 2015 wood-burning stoves have to burn more cleanly than current models), but it’s then extrapolated out far enough that it’s just a flat-out lie (“Older stoves that don’t [meet the new EPA standards] cannot be traded in for updated types, but instead must be rendered inoperable, destroyed, or recycled as scrap metal”; the regulations make clear they apply only to new production, not existing installations).

  • muslimmustgo

    The “epa” is a lawless communist entity that imposes immoral laws,not to be obeyed!! We still live in a free nation for now!!

    • artemis133

      No we don’t.

    • Cliff Beckwith

      No it is not. it is a slow moving government department that is slow and ineffective at implementing laws that would protect human health. You wouldn’t even know what communism is, if you thought it was lawless. You also don’t understand morality, if you think that having the right to pollute at will, without reference to other people’s health and opinion is moral. You don’t live in a free nation, as there are many people who are not free in our nation. People who are not free to enjoy their lives and homes free from the wood smoke pollution. Wood smoke is an evil that the EPA should regulate more fully.

      • rhcrest

        So do you live completely off the grid? How do you get your electricity? Do you walk and bike EVERYWHERE? Do you grow your own food? Do you wear only clothes and only use products that you made from materials on your land thus avoiding petroleum based products. Do you not live in our modern society which requires oil/gas/coal/wood to fuel virtually EVERY activity? Unless you do all those thing then you are nothing but a hypocrite and you should STFU

        • Cliff Beckwith

          You can do all those things and do them in ways that minimize your pollution.

          And even getting electricity from coal it is cleaner to do that to heat your house than to burn wood, because the pollution can be economically and effectively scrubbed at source at the power station instead of being small point sources all in residential neighborhoods.

          So calls of hypocrisy are just plain wrong. It shows a complete lack of understanding on your part. It proves you’re a dumb cunt, rather than anything else.

          • rhcrest

            You people have a problem with everything that people do to live. Today it’s wood stoves, tomorrow it’s fracking. There is always something. It isn’t just one thing with you people – it’s many things.

            • Cliff Beckwith

              There are many things that should be done better. Air quality, water quality, biodiversity, social justice, these are all important.

              I know it is hard for the cretinous to get it all in their little brains at once, but that is the real world. Big and complex.

              • rhcrest

                Social justice? What a commie. You just gave yourself away right there

                • Cliff Beckwith

                  So you believe in social injustice?

                  Slave owner are you?

                  • rhcrest

                    Oh please. What horse manure.

                  • cazie

                    The majority of slave owners were Democrats…and the slavery carried out today is rampant in Muslim countries…oh Cliffy, you’re so smart-NOT!

              • cazie

                More name calling from the ‘tolerant’ left…social justice-you mean stealing from those that do and giving to those that just feel entitled. Air and water quality has steadily improved in our country-but you just keep listening to your commie professors at the indoctrination centers we call college..can you wrap your cretinous brain around the fact that most don’t care what you have to say…

                • Steven Bradbury

                  Maybe, but air quality has a long way to go to get cleaner.

                  I welcome regulating wood stoves to the point of prohibition.

                  • bobfairlane

                    My neighbor has a wood stove. He hardly ever uses it, except the coldest nights of the year. It must be nice to have the option to burn all the dead sticks around here, and logs that people give away as trash after the branches are cleaned up after storms, instead of paying higher electric bills.

                    • Steven Bradbury

                      Yeah, well I had a cunt of a neighbor who burnt every night for 8 months of the year. It absolutely killed my enjoyment of life and I couldn’t get the cunt to stop, so I had to move.

                      Total bans are appropriate. Only a truly demented cunt burns wood.

    • Rush Limbaugh

      I thought you said you lived in a free nation? Yet you call yourself “MuslimMustGo”, so presumably that freedom doesn’t extend to freedom of religion. That sir makes you an A-grad asshole hypocrite.

      Hypocrite.

      Hypocrite.

      Mental midget hypocrite.

      • rhcrest

        Hey Rush, I hate muslims becasue they worship a god, and it is really silly. It makes a mockery of my god.

        • Sarah Pascal

          Oh you’re a racist now rhcrest?

          What a charming prick you must be.

    • Born Free

      I remember being free but I see us trading places with the communists in China. When I went to China I found that they are freer than us now in many ways. In those few remaining ways that we may be somehow freer, I see us running totally in the wrong direction to soon lose even those freedoms.

      The bottom line: The “communists” in China have learned some hard lessons and are returning to freedoms while we race toward a state of absolute tyranny.

      • Max Emptor

        China has ban air pollution. So do most American cities.

        Unregulated burning leads to air pollution.

        China and America should both clean up their act.

        • Max Emptor

          Bad air pollution, not ban air pollution.

          Of course they should ban it too.

  • jameshrust

    Great exposure of the fascist behavior of the EPA.
    The EPA news release on the ban on wood stoves is found at:
    http://www2.epa.gov/residential-wood-heaters

    Don’t all of you have that fuzzy feeling of being taken care of and sleep well at night knowing the EPA is such a noble steward on spending your hard earned tax dollars.
    James H. Rust, Professor of nuclear engineering

    • Spanky Quigman

      Did you read anything on the EPA site to which you linked? The regulations regarding pollution emissions for future manufactor in no affect existing wood-burning stoves. For example, from your link, drilling down to http://www2.epa.gov/residential-wood-heaters/understanding-residential-wood-heater-rules: “The proposed rule would not affect existing woodstoves and other wood-burning heaters currently in use in people’s homes… EPA did not include new indoor fireplaces for regulation in the proposal…”.

      In what way would you characterize that as fascist? Your overheated rhetoric both betrays your dogmatic position and sadly trivializes actual fascism, which tends to be a little more ambitious in aims than reducing particulate pollution.

      • JeffT

        And when you need to replace a wood stove?

        • lotsoffish

          You buy a GOOD ONE that is highly efficient and burns CLEAN. Got a problem with that?

          • angfa1

            I already have a good wood stove P that will last another 20 years. I certainly not going to stop using it until they take it at gun point.

            • Spanky Quigman

              They’re not going to take it at gunpoint. That’s the point: these rules do not apply to your existing wood stove. Which means that they do not apply to your existing wood stove. So your existing wood stove? It’s fine. Is that clear at last?

              • angfa1

                Sorry Spanky I didn’t see your post and the article stated you had to scrap you existing stove. I was just assuming that Larry Bell had his facts correct.

                • Stephanie

                  Since when has Larry Belll known jack shit about anything. His brother Taco may be pretty cool, but he is a fat faced liar.

              • Cliff Beckwith

                Of course they should take away the filthy old ones too. Grandfathering in just means the policy will fail to clean the air in any meaningful way.

                Old for new replacement programs are also ineffective because replacing a wood stove with a wood stove still means you’ve got a wood stove. It failed in Libby, Montana, and everywhere else it’s been tried. The only effective policy reduces the number of wood burners. Truly effective policy reduces the number of wood burners to nought.

                • rhcrest

                  They should take you away

                  • Cliff Beckwith

                    Don’t be a cunt rhcrest.

                    • rhcrest

                      Shut up

                    • Cliff Beckwith

                      Elsewhere you say you can say what you goddam want to, but you tell me to shut up. You fucking hypocrite.

                    • rhcrest

                      You’re the one calling me a cunt. you call me that i will tell you anything i damn well please

                    • Cliff Beckwith

                      But you are a dumb cunt.

                      You don’t even understand global warming.

                    • rhcrest

                      Anyone who believes in globull warming is the dumbest of the dumb

                    • rhcrest

                      Sorry I got that wrong. People who are well read on global warming issues seem to understand it better than me. I don’t know much about it, but am willing to learn. I’m going to start resaerching things now.

                    • rhcrest

                      Good maybe you will realize that it’s nothing but a big hoax

            • Cliff Beckwith

              That can be arranged.

              When I was forced to move due to the pollution in my neighborhood, I was left with that choice. Move or shoot. It was only the threat of the big house that caused me to choose to move. I would have had no qualms putting a bullet through the head of the cunt that smoked me out, because he knew he was smoking me out of my house, and he didn’t care. He use wood to bully me. I still want him dead. And when he does die (from natural causes, or more likely cancer as he’s both a smoker and a wood burner) I am going to dance and then piss on his grave.

          • http://waxingerratic.tumblr.com/ ECM

            Except that a “good one” costs how many times more than a “bad one”? And requires how much more fuel to be as effective, cord for cord, as the older one?

            You do realize people burn wood for *cost-effectiveness*, right? Or because they can’t get any other type of fuel. Adding another financial–or physical–burden to people that can scarcely afford it is fascist in that it puts the Environment* above people.

            That it’s based on computer models that, to date, have proven to be wildly incorrect, re: carbon, is immoral and unethical but, then, what care you for such things, right? You aren’t outside chopping down the wood or struggling to heat your home, so it’s easy to look down your nose at those that do.

            In other words, SHUT UP, YOU EXPLAINED.

            *Capital ‘E’ because, to the people behind this scheme, it’s their god.

            • Spanky Quigman

              Actually one of the point of the newer stoves is that they will generally be more efficient, emitting fewer particulates to provide the same amount of heat. So all those people will actually benefit by getting more energy from the same amount of fuel.

              Also, this has absolutely nothing to do with carbon control. Dead wood (i.e. the kind used for firewood) is considered unsequestered carbon, since it generally ends up back in the environment in one form or another. The point of the EPA regulations on wood-burning stoves is to control air-borne particulate pollution, which, as noted in the links from Utah that I posted elsewhere on this thread, causes immediate and long-term health problems. So it’s not a matter of “computer models”, it’s a matter of real-world experience that’s led Utah–you know, the liberal squish capital of America–to flat-out ban the use of wood-burning stoves during particular times of the year.

              And where in here do you see me looking down my nose at anyone? Nowhere, that’s where. I’ve had friends who’ve lived in cabins in the forest that were heated by wood-burning stoves. I use a fireplace for additional heat in the winter. You’re imagining me as some cartoon version of the liberal dictator you fear, but the fact is that that whole cartoon is based on your own fantasies fueled by ignorance (ignorance evidenced here by the fact that you’re trying to bring up climate-change models to counter rules that have nothing to do with carbon control and climate change).

        • Cliff Beckwith

          Replace it with a clean form of heating that doesn’t fuck up your neighborhood.

          Even the so called “clean” EPA ones aren’t clean at all for these reasons:

          “Clean” is relative. Burning wood is 1000s of times dirtier than burning natural gas (in terms of particulate pollution) so cleaning up wood relative to old wood stoves even by a factor of ten means that the new stove still pollutes 100s of times dirtier than burning natural gas. So burn natural gas instead. (Bottled if you’re not on the grid).

          EPA “clean” stoves are still incredibly polluted and allow about 7.8grams of soot for every kilo of fuel. Australia is 4.0 g/kg (and they’re tightening them now). New Zealand is 1.5g/kg. UK is bringing in 0.4g/kg/ (and 1.5g/kg is still really, really bad – see what it is does to a whole country http://cleanairnz.com/2013/08/10/100-polluted-new-zealand/)

          And manufacturers that claim EPA certification do so based on laboratory testing, and when later tested in real world conditions they pollute a lot more than the manufacturers claim. This is because people who are stupid enough to buy one are too stupid to operate one, plus the laboratory testing is completely unrealistic.

          It’s pretty simple, if you have another house within 500 yards of your own, or if you live in a valley, or if you live in a house with children (as you will be poisoning them whether you wanted to or not), don’t burn wood.

  • artemis133

    This is beyond stupid. How much more are we going to take?

    • Cliff Beckwith

      What’s beyond stupid? All the dumb comments from the dumb commenters here who don’t understand the first thing about living in a civil society?

      • rhcrest

        Hey you know what would be good? How about if the entire country stops producing food and energy to deliver to you you holier than thou people and you can all starve and freeze to death. Since you seem to have such an issue with farmers and those who produce energy, lets see you go without both. I’m all for it. I’d personally like to throw you all off a bridge

        • Cliff Beckwith

          In what way would food production change if urban air quality was protected by banning wood burning?

          Environmental laws protect air and water quality (or they should). How is the drinking water in Kentucky at the moment?

          Of course, in a working society, there should be strong, effective, scientifically based environmental regulation, unperverted by commercial interests.

          Doesn’t much sound like the present day United States does it? All you simpleton libertarians are allowing the extremely wealthy to get rich at the expense of everyone else. It doesn’t have to be that way. There can be wealth without environmental degradation. It is not a dichotomy. It is not an either or. It does require average intelligence or above to understand it. Does that make me holier than thou? It makes me closer to God than the Devil. Now what do you want? A Free for all, pollute anything anywhere policy? I’d suggest your morality is bankrupt?

          30,000 less deaths annually caused by wood smoke pollution might mean there are some extra mouths to feed, but that is negligible in the scheme of things.

          • rhcrest

            Because you environmentalists are against EVERYTHING that involves the land – farmers, ranchers, oil drillers, frackers, coal miners etc. I really would prefer you people all drop dead. You would rather people starve and freeze to death and go jobless and homeless in order to save some stupid tree or some stupid fish no one ever heard of or cares about.

            • Cliff Beckwith

              The best environmentalists I know are farmers. And the best farmers I know are environmentalists.

              Oil drilling, fracking and coal mining should be strictly controlled, or look what has just happened in Kentucky?

              I really would prefer is all you people would get educated.

              • rhcrest

                Hopefully yours will be one of the 30,000 deaths

                • Cliff Beckwith

                  You really are a dumb cunt, aren’t you?

                  • rhcrest

                    No i’m not dumb at all. I see what you b*astards all about

                    • Cliff Beckwith

                      Sorry, you really are dumb.

                      And a bit of a cunt.

                    • rhcrest

                      Awww you commies don’t like it when people see you for what you really are. You’re a watermelon – green on the outside and red on the in

                    • Cliff Beckwith

                      I’m a wealthy capitalist, and I employ 27 people.

                      I don’t hire stupid people though.

                      $14.7m annual turnover last year.

                      Major exporter of a certain type of health product.

                      What do you? Sit in a cabin masturbating all day?

                      You’re not a watermelon. You’re a moldy dog turd. Fluffy mold on the outside, and shit for brains in the middle.

                    • rhcrest

                      Oh so you’re just a big fat hypocrite. It’s ok for you to do whatever you need to to make a living/live while polluting the earth but the heck with everyone else.

                    • Cliff Beckwith

                      Huh? Now are you calling a selfish capitalist who runs his business in the most non-polluting form he can a hypocrite?

                      Sounds to me like you are a communist.

                    • rhcrest

                      You’re a commie. I can smell you people a mile away.

                    • Cliff Beckwith

                      Yet you can’t smell wood smoke.

                      I’d suggest some kind of mental retardation.

                    • rhcrest

                      Commie

                    • rhcrest

                      Actually communism is the best form of government.

                      I love tractors and Kim Ill Wind, the leader of North Korea. I want to have sex with him and his big chubby body.

                    • rhcrest

                      Then move there

                    • rhcrest

                      I already live there. I am Kim Kill Song’s love child.

                      I, rhcrest, of Pyongyang, am a very naughty boy.

                    • Phil McMorrow

                      You must be very unhappy. Why not hang yourself?

                    • stupid is as stupid does

                      I hope they outlaw folks like these that don’t like another’s view so they comment back and forth with all sorts of vulgarity and rudeness. We live in America where we CAN say and think what we want but sadly some of you don’t know when to restrain yourselves.

                    • Sammy Davis Jr

                      You’re a bit of a stupid cockhead yourself there stupid.

                    • 88twin

                      i had to say something u are so full of shit cliff if u were making 14 mil a yr u wouldn’t be on here trying to tell people how to live and trying to convince everyone your so smarter then everyone else your just a asshole lib trying to make your self feel good

                    • Guest

                      Of course, the person whose enough of an asshole to think it’s OK to burn wood in this day and age, also runs his mouth on the internet telling people he hopes his wood smoke kills them. Be glad you don’t live around me, cause I’d have to begging for the government to get involved!

                    • BC80wf

                      Of course, the person whose enough of an asshole to think it’s OK to burn wood in this day and age, also runs his mouth on the internet telling people he hopes his wood smoke kills them. Be glad you don’t live around me, cause I’d have you begging for the government to get involved!

                  • Fight4Freedom

                    So this represents a “civil society”? A liberal’s version of it anyway.

                    • Spanky Quigman

                      In Cliff’s defense, rhcrest had just said that he hoped Cliff would die.

                    • Charles Fillinger

                      Liberals almost always end their debates, rhetoric and gossip with name calling.

                  • Phil McMorrow

                    Nice language, moron.

              • intheleupp

                Wrong. The best farmers are conservationists, not environmentalists.

            • Godson54739

              I get a kick out of the statement of some fish. I helped a friend do some commercial fishing on the Mississippi River, on Lake Pepin. Which starts just south of Red Wing Minnesota and goes down to Wabasha, Minnesota. We used Saining Nets which are non Discriminative of what they catch. Another words it catches everything that is caught when the net is closed. I had been reading an article about how the Spoon Billed Catfish was totally extinct in Lake Pepin and had been for some 100 years! That morning when we dropped our nets? We caught something like 168 of them, that got caught inside of the enclosure. Ranging from around 3-4 pounds all the way up to the first one we found, which did a good job of tearing up a section of the nets at 478 pounds. The point is, just because some one doesn’t catch it on a line. Or someone else writes it on a piece of paper? Doesn’t make anything the truth! It’s nothing more, then another joke on the American people and another Attack on Your God given rights to live free, by this Bullshit Government that we have on Capital Hill. Read the 1923 Trading with the Enemy Act, to be Exact Proclamation 2039, and 2040. FDR in those 2 Proclamations Made you Me and everyone else who are free Americans, Enemies Of the Defacto Government. Now if you Look up Defacto in a Blackstone Law Dictionary? Defacto Means something that has no right being where it is at, or doing what it is doing. And the Problem dates all the way back into the early 1800′s and even earlier then that. Some tried to straighten out the system, other do nothing more then hinder it and try to kill off the way it is supposed to work. People really need to get a clue, and tell these Jerks to run our Country the way it was meant to be and stop filing frivelless lawsuites. You don’t Like what the Constitution says and Stands for? You don’t like what the Flag looks like or what It stands for? Then there’s the Door! Don’t let it hit you in your Fat ass as you are Leaving. Another words don’t leave Mad, Just Leave! Simple as that

          • Fight4Freedom

            Gosh, I hope they outlaw house and forest fires next! Think of all the tragedy the government would save there! They can do that right after they get the cows to stop passing gas. Please. Burning wood is a NATURAL thing. Is that too difficult to comprehend? It’s not like you are burning rubber or styrofoam. You people that got your tax deduction for claiming your wood stove…. Now the govt. knows you have one! There’s always a reason why the govt. wants to give you money. This is all about people who are jealous of the rich and want to “take out” any sort of independent people. Trouble is, the dependent people (like you) are going to learn you can’t do without us. And yes, there can be – and IS – weath without enviromental degradation. Wow. I just can’t stop shaking my head…..

            • Phil McMorrow

              How much smoke is generated by California and other Western State wildfires, as compared to that generated by burning wood for fuel? The Greens need to get serious if they are to be taken seriously.

              • Sarah Pascal

                Wild fire smoke is best avoided (and best prevented), but so too should wood smoke from all sources. In midwinter in most AMerican cities the woodsmoke that is killing you is from wood fires, not from Californina wild fires.

                So wood smoke from burning wood in residential areas should be best avoided (and best prevented). I have to agree with the vulgar commenters on here that prohibition is the best solution.

              • Sarah Pascal

                And where is that smoke? My neighbors burn wood in my street and that is where the pollution is.

                Phil, don’t be such a fucking dumb cunt. That is a stupid argument put forward by a stupid little boy.

                • Phil McMorrow

                  Don’t go a way mad. Just go away.

              • BC80wf

                Are you kidding me? You think there’s no law against forest fires!?!?! What do you think happens when the police actually catch the person who started the fire? … wow… a whole new level of ignorance, even for the internet… If our government wants to ban the needless and harmful creation of wood smoke in peoples neighborhoods caused for the selfish sake of the wood burners own convenience, then they should start by banning house and wildfires… wow… as if people burn their houses down for kicks and giggles, and as if nobody thinks forest fires are a big deal… wow… wow… seriously, effin’, wow. Don’t have children.

            • Godson54739

              Dam, Fight 4 You hit it on the Nail Head. And said it so simply truthful!

          • Jake Bertz

            Most wood burning is done in rural areas. Banning it will have no effect on urban air quality.

            • Steven Bradbury

              Not true.
              Wood smoke is a problem in my suburban neighborhood here in Detroit.

              I want a complete ban.

              • Jake Bertz

                Are you sure it isn’t the urban decay?

                • Steven Bradbury

                  Jake, Are you telling me I’m too stupid to discern the smell of woodsmoke? Woodsmoke smells the way it does because of benzene. Benzene causes childhood cancers (and adult cancers too).

                  Ever lost a child to cancer?

                  (Yep Detroit has a bit of a cancer too. On windy days and on summer days when no one is burning in my hood, it really is a nice place to live though).

                  • Jake Bertz

                    Well, you live in Detroit, so your intelligence certainly is up for question.

                  • Godson54739

                    Steven Bradbury, Benzene is an additive found in Treated woods, Not in any Natural wood, that hasn’t been used in some sort construction. You will also find High levels of Arsenic gases in those treated woods. So whoever is Burning, whatever, in your Community? Should probably quit burning the Pallets, or Construction Grade Lumber that they are using for burning. Plus the Last time I checked? There were not a whole lot of trees to cut down in your City. But Plenty of fallen down buildings to pick burnable remnants from.

          • Phil McMorrow

            I have lived in rural New England all of my life and have never heard of anyone getting rich by providing firewood to those who want it or in building wood burning stoves.

          • simpel-folk

            If 30,000 extra people is negligible to you, then why do you pretent to care so much?

          • intheleupp

            If you want to save lives that much Cliff, then help stop abortion.

        • Irvin Chase

          OUTSTANDING IDEA!!!

      • Fight4Freedom

        Yes, I see how civil you are. Typical.

        • Larry Bell

          What is civil? Calling a cunt a cunt, or doing this to an innocent neighbor living next door?

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KU_AAerVzZc

        • Godson54739

          I Ask Larry Bell, what is it that these People are burning for Fuel? I’ve Burned wood all 54 years of my Life. I am not on a respirator, nor do I have Lung problems caused by the wood smoke I’ve lived around all of my life. If people burn Construction grade woods, or treated woods of any type, to start there fires? You will be sick. So will those around you. Treated Woods carry neat Poisons such as Benzene gases, Arsenic Gases just to name a few of the toxins in them. Natural wood does not throw off these gases that are killing people. I was a Wild fire jumper and I’ve been down wind of thousands of Fires in nature. Now Why am I not dieing from the lung diseases this says you get from wood fires? Better yet? Go stand next to a home that is burning and see how long you last from the Fumes off of that fire. Ignorance is Bliss. And calling Names get’s nothing Accomplished. The video you show? Is Propaganda. Nothing more then , Like the young Lady asking the snipers to stop killing them in the Ukraine. Nothing more then Pompous BS.

      • Grand2833

        We can certainly copy the actions of the European countries that allow tens of thousands of their citizens to freeze to death each year. Last winter 24,000 people froze to death in Great Britain alone. Is that really something Americans will accept? I don’t think so.

    • Phil McMorrow

      Exactly. So poor people no longer will have the option of gathering fuel with an axe (a fuel which is self-perpetuating if properly managed) and instead burn Oil, either directly or indirectly, which may have the impact of enriching those who despise us and threaten us.

      • Spidey

        Phil,
        You’re ignoring the particulate pollution problem, so

    • Louise

      How much m ore can these people take?
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KU_AAerVzZc

      • Peter Quinn

        Genius! This video shows people having difficulty breathing, and we are supposed to just assume they cannot breathe because of wood smoke?? What moron would believe that?

        • Cliff Beckwith

          What moron wouldn’t?

          Are you saying people make up their lung disease and fake their symptoms?

          Lung disease is real and so are the causes.

          Did you know that in New Zelaand 56% of homes are heated with wood and the childhood asthma rate is 6 times the world average. There are precious little other sources of air pollution in New Zealand other than wood smoke. You do the math,

          • making_pie

            lol you Obumatard faggot. Way to promote the NWO.

          • Mollie Norris

            Asthma is an autoimmune disease. It’s onset can be a result of an infection, allergy, stress, including exercise, and some air pollutants . Actually, it’s pretty common around the world for people to sit around campfires, grill outdoors, as well as using fireplaces and wood stoves.
            I have asthma, so I’ve learned a few things about it, although my worst symptoms are caused by my allergy to rats (my kids’ former pets), which is common.
            I’m sure there aren’t any rats in New Zealand.

          • Sam Pyeatte

            You far-left loons always fake and fabricate data to fit Saul Alinsky dictates. Like the Muslim “lying to infidels is fine” modus of operation, the far-left is in 100% compliance.

        • Smokey Wind
        • jim_wright

          You are just expected to acceptct huh e touchy feely BS from the lefties without question.

      • Godson54739

        Now, I’m not doing any Name calling , because that’s pure ignorance in
        itself. So! Let’s get down to Brass tacks here and Deal with the subject
        of Air Pollution. To all you Environmentalists out there who think you
        have all the answers. Big city pollution has nothing to do with Number
        one, Second hand smoke from Cigarets, or does it have any thing to do
        with wood smoke. What it does have to do with is the fact that, How many
        vehicles run through that town or city? How Many Diesel Trucks do
        Delivery’s? How many Diesel Locomotives do you have running product in
        and out of your city? Now that those questions are asked? What is the
        nutritional intake of these people? What is their diet comprised of?
        What kind of supplements (Vitamins, Minerals and the such) are they
        taking daily. What kind of meds are being supplied to the Area and from
        whom? We Humans are totally ignorant of what is going on around us
        today. Do you realize Dog food has more nutritional value to it then the
        food you buy from the store? Diabetes is caused from mineral
        deficiencies, Cancer is caused by Vitamin, and Mineral deficiencies, so
        are most ailments out there. Now? What I really wish to Know is this.
        Are you gonna pay my heating bill when the temps here hit 40-60 below?
        Propane is at over $4.00 a gallon here. It cost a friend over $4000.00
        to fill his tank which lasts him roughly a month, in the extreme cold.
        You gonna pay for me to prepare my food and heat My home? You wish to
        complain about Air Pollution? Start with anything that is Diesel out
        there, dumping raw fuel into the air we breath. Do you realize a Diesel
        engine is less then 60% efficient? Now that’s a small part of the
        Pollution problem. Now you go to a Diesel Train engine that transports
        some 78% of the Produce in this Country. They dump over 4 million parts
        of raw Diesel into the air every minute that they are under power. I’ve
        heard People moving out into the country complain about a Dairy Farmer
        spreading his Cow Manure out on his fields! Even watched the court
        proceedings as he tried to Sue the farmer for Polluting his air with
        that farm fresh fragrance. The Judge told him to Move back to the City,
        if he didn’t like the smell.
        Ignorance is Bliss! You need to
        learn what you are complaining about before you open your mouths. The
        Medical field in this Country is Called Medical Practice for a reason.
        Because they use us, as their own personal Ginnea Pigs to Practice on.
        Ask any Scientist that is practicing Science. They will tell you that
        Science is not Exact, but is only in Theory. The EPA in this country is a
        Joke, Just like the FDA. The Poisons that they allow these asshole to
        put into our Food and drugs? Are an Monstrosity. The additives in most
        Pops that the public drinks robs your body of Calcium, because it’s the
        only way our body can break it down. You need also to follow the Radio
        active cloud that runs over us now constantly. Because Radiation is what
        causes cancer. Talk to the Government about the Chem trails coming off
        of the Jets that Fly over our heads? Aluminum Oxide is one of the
        Ingredients in that trail, they use it to seed the Clouds to make it
        rain, (So they Say) Causes Cancer. Let alone all of the Biological
        ingredients in it. Bola-Bola Fever, Hoof and Mouth, Anthrax, just to
        name a few. Where the sickness coming from? Look to your Federal
        Government. Look to the soil the Farmers are growing our food in. It’s
        been depleted of all mineral and nutritional values since back in the
        60′s if you listen to the Scientists. You wish to stop wood burning?
        Work on the other things first. Because if you go with wood fires? You
        best start hopping on all of those forest fires and brush fires that
        criss-cross the world because that smoke might reach your Lungs and
        cause asthma. The Information I just posted is available to any of you
        who feel like looking. What it boils down to? Is how many Idiots can
        they get to back them, and doing it behind closed doors to get it done.
        That should be and is the Bitch most will have , as well they should.
        Have a Blessed day one and all.

  • cazie

    Do not comply! Buy your stove now folks, and some extra piping. They can kiss my a$$.

    • Cliff Beckwith

      You do realise that just makes you a selfish fuckwit who doesn’t care about their neighbors, or their health, or about the air you’ve got to breathe? Do you breathe air? Why would you want that to be tainted with chemicals that cause you harm? Are you mentally defective? Talking of which there have been studies (in South Korea and Poland) that chronic exposure to woodsmoke in children reduces their average IQ testing by 5 points.You must have breathe a lot of wood smoke.

      • FEDUP365

        Why don’t you go fuck yourself Cliff Beckwith you little faggot, whinning, crying son of a bitch, tree hugging ass hole. You some kind of global warming wanna be scientist. You going to tell me you dont have a drivers liscense, never been in a combustabile engine driven automobile, never turn your lights on and you wipe your ass on an old rug,never ate meat from an animal. SO Cliff as I see it your still part of the problem, Do us a favor and go JUMP OFF A CLIFF. Literally, do it

        • Cliff Beckwith

          Don’t be a cunt mate.

          • rhcrest

            Looks like i’m not the only one that wants you to drop dead

            • Cliff Beckwith

              Don’t you be a cunt either rhcrest.

              • rhcrest

                I’ll say what i damn well please.

                • Cliff Beckwith

                  Doesn’t make what you say worth a dime.

                  • rhcrest

                    Yours isn’t worth a penny

      • cazie

        Wow…another obamonite spewing ‘global warming’ propaganda hate. How did we ever live through the days of almost everyone having wood burners?? Hope you don’t drive, or get on the bus-how about the chemicals there? Don’t fart either…who’s mentally defective Cliffy.

        • Steven Bradbury

          Cazie, I wouldn’t be so quick. It could be you who is mentally deficient. Car exhausts are cleaner than wood burning. 1 wood burner puts out in one night the equivalent of 15,000 miles driven by a diesel SUV.

          Learn some facts before you think you know anything. You really are trying to compare apples and oranges. Wood smoke is in a league of its own when it comes to the magnitude of the pollution.

          A ban is best.

      • cazie

        You don’t realize your government is killing you with flouride and chlorine in your water supply, chemtrail chemicals in your air, food dyes and chemicals in your food supply–give us all a break. I’ll take the wood smoke. Don’t insult us with your lack of reality and the real culprits.

        • Steven Bradbury

          Well, now you really have shown us you know fuck all about chemistry.

          You have no idea on the magnitudes of the risks involved. If you did you’d realize how stupid comparing fluoride to woodsmoke is.

          • cazie

            Your vitriol and ignorance are astounding…keep drinkin’ your kool-aid, and make sure it’s made with good ole’ tap water. I’d take my chances with woodsmoke anyday over the chemicals your’re ingesting everyday. Amazing what lefties think they know.

            • Heron

              It is amazing how fucking ignorant you are prepared to show yourself publicly.

              Time for enrolling in chemistry 101 for you.

              • cazie

                Heron-you, Steven and the rest of the libtards are a disgrace. Sheeple to say the least, and arrogant beyond belief. When my generation is dead and gone you can live on your sustainable wind (bird grinders) and solar. Until then, you can kiss our arses libby. We’ll do as we please…breathe deep (my woodsmoke)!

                • Marianne

                  Cazie, If you assaulted me with your wood smoke, I’d assault you with my baseball bat.

                  • cazie

                    Marianne…just like a libby. Can’t verbally win an argument so you resort to violence. But I’d be glad to oblige you if you think you’ll be successful coming at me with a bat. Like a famous conservative once said “make my day!”

  • Spanky Quigman

    This article is mistaken on many different points. I don’t know if Larry Bell is misinformed or lying, but on a VERY important point he is definitely wrong. Specifically, the new regulations are for new production models starting in 2015. Existing wood-burning stoves are not affected, so the idea that people that rely on wood for their heat will no longer be able to use it is completely wrong:

    “Older stoves that don’t [meet the new standards] cannot be traded in for updated types, but instead must be rendered inoperable, destroyed, or recycled as scrap metal.”

    From the EPA’s site (http://1.usa.gov/MFtIrY):

    “The standards govern the manufacture and sale of new residential wood heating devices and do not apply to existing wood stoves and other wood heaters installed in peoples’ homes.”

    As far as this all being based on conjecture and pointy-headed theorizing, i.e. “the EPA’s computer–model–based warning about the dangers of inhaling soot from wood smoke…” that’s also mistaken. Wood smoke pollution is a real thing and has led to outright bans on burning of wood in areas with high usage of wood-burning stoves. And this is not in liberal enclaves: Utah has mandatory no-burn days due to unhealthy air quality (http://www.airquality.utah.gov/Compliance/noburndays.htm, http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/57245936-78/utah-inversion-lake-salt.html.csp). And the side-effects of this kind of poor air quality isn’t just superficial: children with asthma suffer more attacks, people with weak cardiovascular systems–older people with heart disease or COPD, for example–suffer more heart attacks and strokes, and in the long term that sort of particulate matter is carcinogenic on the same basis as coal dust and the like.

    In fact, the EPA’s guidelines, when in effect and having replaced existing wood-burning stoves, would enable more widespread use of wood-burning stoves, since any given number of stoves would do much less to affect the air quality than existing stoves.

    Again, I don’t know if Mr. Bell is mistaken or a liar, but he is certainly one or the other.

    • Ugh

      Yeah your know we havent been burning it since the beginning of time to keep warm, I mean we used to grow fur you know, and lightning never struck and burned millions of acres of timber and prairie.

      • Spanky Quigman

        You’re right, we really have advanced since then. Enough so that we have what people call “cities” wherein there are lots of people that live within a relatively small area and if lots of those people burn a lot of wood and the smoke stays near the ground then lots of those people can get really sick (look at the maps of the greater Salt Lake City area where mandatory burning bans are regularly imposed to see what I mean).

        And when lightning strikes and burns millions of acres of timber, there are a lot of negative effects, falling ash and heavy smoke amongst them. The difference is that we can do something about heating infrastructure, we can’t do much about acts of God. Thus the name.

        • jdelcjr

          I think people in the cities should concern them selves with city problems like the rat and litter problem. I hear their removing ALL the trash cans from the subway system in NY because they are so over run with rats the size of cats. They expect people are going to carry the trash from their empty food containers to where? Its all going to wind up on the ground for more rats. You worry about your rats we’ll worry about our air. I doubt there’s any “particles” flying from alaska to NY since “particles” don’t stay airborne very long. I live in a rural area and many people don’t even use wood stoves unless there’s a power outage. A power outage in a rural or remote area can last for days or weeks. The ones that use them most are poor and trying to save money, so this is going to hurt the poor more then anyone.

          • Spanky Quigman

            No it’s not. Poor people’s current stoves are completely exempt, so they’ll be in exactly the same situation they are now. The stoves that will be manfuactured in accordance with the new guidelines will be more efficient, thus using less wood for the same amount of heat, thus benefitting the poor the most.

            • jdelcjr

              That would be a good thing. I would need to research that and find out just who is considered “poor”. Now if the poor can afford to buy the more efficient stove it would be a win win. Most of the poor in rural areas collect their own wood since there is an abundance of it, But the higher efficiency would mean less wood, better heat and less labor to collect wood. The more efficient the stove, the higher the price tag. It sounds like at least for now, If you like your old stove, You can keep your old stove.

            • jdelcjr

              I left another response to this yesterday which is gone. The more efficient stoves are great If you can afford them. Wood in rural areas is abundant and free. “Particles” from wood stoves can’t possibly travel far so I don’t see it as a National concern. Local at best. I live in an area where some people do use wood stoves. They don’t bother me, and I seldom even smell smoke so I don’t even know what the big national environmental problem is. Too much bureaucracy trying to justify their existence.

              • Spanky Quigman

                Local solutions won’t be addressed by national (and international) manufacturing concerns. Further, without standards, you end up with a drive to the bottom and a textbook example of the tragedy of the commons. But it doesn’t really matter: this is all discussion around the issue, which is fine. But it’s just a matter of standard regulatory policy, NOT some overbearing fascist jackboot to the heel of the people with the potential to destroy an entire way of life. But that’s really the only language that CFACT speaks: apocalyptic warnings of the dirty libruls coming to take your [guns|children|wood stoves|etc]. And any given issue constantly gets conflated into the overarching librul conspiracy: this is really just a pathfinder so the U.N. can make us all take mass transit! It’s really not. It’s unrelated. It’s just regulations about wood stove manufacturing standards.

        • Ed Miller

          Yeah because sooo many people have wood stoves in the city. You can argue support for this EPA over reach all you want but you can not change the fact that a bureaucracy with no political over site has once again foisted rules on people by skirting the intentions of our representative government. The EPA is supposed to be enforcing laws passed by Congress…instead it is writing law by cheating the system and should be shut down and replaced with a government agency capable of understanding their job.

          • Gordon Lifte

            Yes too many people have wood smoke in the city. 5000 people marched in Salt Lake City demanding better air quality last weekend. The Utah governor has announced bans on wood burning. Denver has banned wood burning. Montreal has introduced a ban. Pittsburgh has polluted air. Number 1 cause – wood burning. Detroit’s number 1 cause of air pollution – wood burning.

            Wood burning is a huge problem from Huntington Beach to Portland, Maine and every place in between. In the winter months wood burning dwarfs auto emissions as the number 1 cause of air pollution. It is only climate, such as Florida, that lets any cities in the United States be breathable in Winter. There is an urgent need for laws that protect air pollution from the lies of the wood stove manufacturer industry. There needs to be complete prohibition.

  • FEDUP365

    You want to file a lawsuit then you should pay your own f#&^ing way to see it through. Why is it the consumer and tax payers being held to the fire for earthjustice’s lawsuit to the tune of 4.6 millon dollars.Or get your extreme enviromentilists to back your lawsuit you tree hugging bastards. You should all be tried for enviromental and economical espionage and treason for trying to ruin the economy by getting more businesses shut down because no stove builder can accomplish building a stove with near zero pollution standards. I can build my own stove and burn all the trash I can stuff into it and hope you live down wind from me. I love burning plastic milk jugs with old motor oil in them. And maybe you can wander into my hunting area making a bunch of racket like I’ve seen before and I’ll have to mistake you for a bear in the brush if this is what you want.

    • Cliff Beckwith

      I paid for my litigation when I took my neighbor to court to get an injunction to stop them polluting my house with wood smoke.

      ” I can build my own stove and burn all the trash I can stuff into it and hope you live down wind from me” – you are the treasonable cunt. Fucking selfish, fucked in the head cunt.

      • FEDUP365

        Was I talking about your mezley assed whinning to the court system you dumb fuck little son of a bitch. Your not costing the tax payers millions of dollars and if you want to sue thats your purogitive, don’t expect tax payers to pay your attorneys fees. Your probably one of those dumb fucks who live squashed up to your neighbors side wall with 4 feet of yard to share amongst yourselves and you call that shit living. More Calif B.S. I have 10.5 acres and what I do on it is my land is my fucking business little boy and if you fly your little drone over it I’LL fucking shoot it down before I come looking for the spy owner who flew it over there so so much for your whinning little bitch.

        • Cliff Beckwith

          I couldn’t live in my own fucking house.

          Am I meant to take that without fighting? What kind of a pussy are you?

          I should have killed the son of a bitch, but the law told me I couldn’t. I used the law against him. He was a cunt. he had it coming. What kind of cunt burns wood that makes wood smoke, that smokes out their neighbors to their point that their neighbor can’t take it anymore?

          10.5 acres is not a lot. You’ll have neighbors too close to burn. If you have 1000 acres may be, but 10.5 acres is not much bigger than what they have in some suburbs.

          Other people who have taken their polluting neighbors to court have been awarded $50,000 or $100,000 in damages. I only tried to get the fucker to stop.

  • amabokcuf

    F*ck the EPA and the rest of this socialist government.

    • Cliff Beckwith

      Really, socialist? Clean air regulations (although they are weak and still really enforce the status quo, so aren’t clean air regulations at all) are socialist? So by definition you can’t be free from socialism unless your air is polluted.

      I think you need to read the dictionary definition of a few words amabokcunt. You’re not making much sense presently.

  • Simon Says

    I love all these global warming idiots. They can’t face the fact that current research does not support their idiocy. Hey, if I want one, I will get one, either black market or build it myself. What are they gonna do? Nothing!

    • Cliff Beckwith

      Except of course all the current research does actually support the science.

      Simon says “be a thicko sheeple”.

      • Simon Says

        Not according to the last meeting at the UN, it rather disproved the theory. They quickly swept it under the rug and the MSM ignored it.

        • Cliff Beckwith

          What fucking dumb source of misinformation are you reading Simon? You really should widen your reading, as telling us what you know only proves to those around you that you know absolutely fucking nothing.

          Go on reply, show us how smart you are.

          • rhcrest

            Oh and you believe in gloBULL warming too? Now i really know you’re insane.

            • Cliff Beckwith

              Yes I absolutely do, but then again I did climatology subjects as part of my physics degree at college, and can read and evaluate scientific papers by reading them myself.

              I know it is hard for dumb fucks, but just because you’re too stupid to understand it doesn’t invalidate what is happening in the real world.

              • rhcrest

                Oh i’m supposed to be impressed? LOL. Globull warming is such a load of bull it would be funny if it wasn’t so pathetic.You people that believe in globull warming are truly idiots.

                • Cliff Beckwith

                  Look I don’t care if you really are the dumbest shit on the planet. That doesn’t change one thing about the truth of global warming.

                  • rhcrest

                    It’s not the truth. it’s some sort of cult like belief system you people have

                  • rhcrest

                    Sorry Cliff that I am ignorant of all the facts about global warming. I will go to my library, make a large donation so they can keep on providing reading to children, and read some about the issues until I can understand them and then comment in a clever manner.

                    • rhcrest

                      are you talking to yourself now?

          • Simon Says

            You must be a libtard. You can’t win an argument, so you result to name calling and swearing. Great way to show professionalism. It just goes to show how far the left has sunk into moral decay. You are the one that needs to do more reading, but I will not discuss it with a liberal. Anything that isn’t contained inside the Kool-Aid graciously supplied by your Masters, you refuse to listen to or read. This convo. is ended.

            • Cliff Beckwith

              The fact that I can call you a dumb cunt, and be right about global warming are not actually correlated. You are pretty fucked up on logic too, huh?

              • Simon Says

                Hey, dumb cunt, I said the convo was ended. I guess, not only being a libtard, you can’t read….

                • Cliff Beckwith

                  Don’t be a fuckwit Simon Says. It’s not a game of simon says . we don’t do what you say, because you deserve no respect.

                  Cliff Says “suck my balls”.

                  • Simon Says

                    If you have noticed (except to the reply to your ignorant reply), never contained any swear words or name calling. The last three posts you made just shows how far libs have gone down the tubes. Name calling, insulting, you can’t face the facts. But that’s ok, we need people like you to vote for idiots like Obama to prove how incredibly stupid the Democratic/Progressive side has always been. Good luck in the next election. Everyone LOVES Obummercare!

                    • Cliff Beckwith

                      Simon, who cares if you are sweary or not. What the fuck does that matter? Everything you say is a big pile of horseshit anyway.

                      We get judged by our actions. That’s why you’re going to Hell, because you’re a selfish cunt who thinks nothing of polluting his neighborhood.

                    • Simon Says

                      That’s a VERY adult response. How old are you, five? *lol* “What a maroon!”

  • dt1492

    Eco fascism. Enough already. When is Congress going to pass a law to stop this?

    • Cliff Beckwith

      Eco-fascism is burning wood and forcing your neighbor to breathe polluted air that kills and sickens. Indeed when is Congress going to pass a law to stop that?

      • Marjorie Atlasem

        I hope Congress does pass a law to restrict pollution from wood fires. My neighbor has an outdoor wood boiler. I am going to have to move. It pumps out smoke all day, every day. I should kill him though to save myself the money of moving. I’m going to fill it with concrete though. You think he might get the message then. Outdoor Wood Boilers should be banned completely. They are insane. The OWB companie directors should be hanged by the neck.

        • Cliff Beckwith

          Marjorie, Well said.

          I hope we can act on your suggestion for the OWB company directors.

  • Dale Netherton

    The jerks that said,” There ought to be law” have gotten their wish. Live with it if you can.

    • Cliff Beckwith

      It is an ineffective law and will do little to protect air quality. Other countries are doing a better job, and having stricter emission standards, but even then they were political compromises and not based on the science, but have only proven to be time wasters in getting to an effective law, and that is a law of prohibition of burning wood in residential and closely settled rural areas.

      30,000 annual dead Americans due to wood smoke pollution is too high a price to pay. Permanently polluted suburbs is too high a price to pay. Denver banned them. Montreal has banned them. It looks like Salt Lake City is going to ban them. All cities need prohibition.

      • Dale Netherton

        Prohibition didn’t work for alcohol and it won’t work for prohibiting keeping warm. We don’t need controls by inept bureaucrats. When you figure out how to stop forest fires and volcanoes, you might have a more plausible case.

        • Cliff Beckwith

          Sorry Dale , but that is just really fucking stupid argument. Do you have a forest on fire or a volcano on the street where you live? No, you don’t. This is about neighborhood air quality. What is causing the pollution in the neighborhood? It ain’t a fucking volcano. It is the shit for brains neighbor with a wood burner. All the other neighbors shouldn’t have to have their wquality of life reduced because that guy is as thick as shit. Don’t be that guy. Be smart. Don’t burn. Only dickheads burn.

          • Dale Netherton

            Gas burns, oil burns and electricity is supplied by plants that burn to power generators. All this so we can keep warm and not freeze to death. You don’t like burning, bundle up in blanket and leave your neighbors to keep themselves warm by what ever method they choose. That is the freedom that Americans have and expect. We don’t need insulting power grabbers to dictate what we do. Wise up.

  • Robert Peterson

    Sorry my wood stove has been in our family for many generations no one will be coming to my house to destroy anything.

    • Cliff Beckwith

      Except air quality apparently.

      Why is it ok for you to destroy your neighborhood’s air quality? You should move to Communist Beijing if you want to live in reduced air quality.

      • Robert Peterson

        When you’re ready to foot the bill for a new furnace for my home, because many like myself rely on wood to heat our homes in the winter we’ll talk until then my neighbors burn wood as well. Why don’t you move to China the world’s largest air polluter and go flap your lips at them.

        • Cliff Beckwith

          Why should you not pay for your own heating that doesn’t poillute the neighbourhood? If your toilet overflowed, do I have to fund your new toilet too?

          A minimum requirement is not polluting the neighborhood. That goes for you and your neighbors. (My neighbors do it too, doesn’t stop yours being a nuisance),

          You have neighbors. Therefore you shouldn’t burn at all. You are poisoning them. Will you understand that if one of them dies of a stroke you are partially responsible? Any kids get leukaemia where you live? How are the asthma rates? Kids get asthma at 6 times the rate in polluted areas, to non polluted areas.

          Why don’t you pay for their asthma inhalers?

          It’s all about you, isn’t it? You’re just another selfish wood burner ignoring the externalized costs, not caring that you are harming children. That makes you a child abuser too.

          • Robert Peterson

            My son has asthma. And since you know nothing or little about wood stoves my wood stove makes no smoke it was designed that way many years before the EPa had their noses in everybody’s business you assume you know what type of wood stove I burn without doing any research whatsoever I’m sorry I’m not part of your idiot collective minds that group all into one my wood stove far surpasses anything the EPA can certify because they aren’t that advanced they just throw a number out there and expect people to freak out. What you see coming out of my stove pipe is less than a cigarette . Let me guess you think cigarettes should be banned outside as well. Sorry I’m an American not a communist I do whatever I want when I want and if it bothers people like you that’s even better. I’m not part of the corporate Government machine you seem to be a part of. Someone tells you it’s bad and believe them because you are programed to just that. Think for yourself for once or does that hurt too much?

            • Cliff Beckwith

              Bullshit. Your wood burner makes smoke. Your kid has asthma. Put two and two together. Thicko.

              Pretending your wood heater is clean. Hilarious. Fairies in the garden? Obama is a sasquatch? GOd exists?

              I’m not a communist either mate, just educated to a higher level than you.

              • rhcrest

                You know what is a big cause of asthma and lung cancer? Our houses don’t breathe! They are locked up tighter than a drum thanks to a million GOVERNMENT regulations! Fresh air doesn’t come inside you dipshiz

                • Cliff Beckwith

                  Do you actually know anything?

                  Particulate pollution ingresses houses, and indoor air quality has about 50% of outdoor air quality in terms of PM2.5s and ultrafines.

                  Wood smoke causes lung cancer and asthma.
                  Cigarette smoke causes lung cancer and asthma.
                  Diesel particulates cause lung cancer and asthma.
                  2 stoke exhausts cause lung cancer and asthma.
                  Silica dust. Asbestos dust. Etc, Etc.

                  Multiple causes. One way to reduce risk, which is to reduce exposure.

                  • rhcrest

                    Sorry there has been much news lately on exactly how the tightness of our houses is causing lung cancer.

                    • Cliff Beckwith

                      Yeah, right? Sources please.

                    • rhcrest

                      Google is your friend. Look it up. I’m not going to do your work for you

                    • Cliff Beckwith

                      i.e. they don’t exist.
                      SO you lied to us.

                    • rhcrest

                      Oh it’s there. Not lying at all

                    • Cliff Beckwith

                      Liar

                    • rhcrest

                      Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better

              • Robert Peterson

                Thank you for sharing bye-bye

            • Mcat

              Larry Bell says it is poison.PM2.5 is killing people.Oh that was last years article,go through his archives regarding the EPA forcing PM2.5 on unsuspecting victims.

          • T.

            Some of us have neighbors that are miles away.

            Next?

            • Gertrude A.

              And for those who don’t have miles to their neighbors these greenies do have apoint. We should not be obstinate. They are reading the Lancet, the New England Journal of Medicine. There is plenty of scientific evidence to support the greenies on this.

              You mightn’t like them, but they are correct. Wood smoke is highly toxic.

    • Spanky Quigman

      You’re correct: no one will come to your house to destroy anything since the EPA regulations apply only to new production starting in 2015 and have no effect on existing stock. Check the actual EPA regulations. I’ve linked them in other responses here.

      • Robert Peterson

        Ah the grandfathered clause. So most of this report is BS

        • Spanky Quigman

          Yes, it’s mostly BS. There are indeed new EPA regulations that will affect wood-burning stoves in some capacity, so that part is correct. Otherwise it’s all BS. Including Bell’s snide remark about “where’s global warming when we need it?” Since that comes hot on the heels of talking about Alaska, did you know that they’re having a record warm winter in Alaska? http://bit.ly/1n5SJrb So there’s your global warming to help out with the issue of burning wood in Alaska.

          • Robert Peterson

            Makes you wonder if in 1949 there were Global Warming alarmists blaming CO2 emissions.

            • Gordon Lifte

              The laws of physics were in force in 1949, so yes it was. Without the greenhouse effect the Earth would have been -15 degrees Celsius. In 1949 that was the case.

              Robert you might like to think before writing anything further as stupid as you just wrote.

        • Doc

          Everything in cfact is bullshit. Fundamentalist christian, right wing libertarian, shit for brains bullshit.

    • Missy P

      Mental retardation has also been in your family for generations no doubt.

      Go you Seahawks.

  • William Wilson

    Have conservatives completely given up on truth and accuracy?

    • Cliff Beckwith

      Yes, a long time ago.

  • William Wilson

    Xx

  • joe

    ALASKA !!! REALLY no natural gas pipe lines only propane and LOOK what happened to the price of propane lately..4 bucks a gallon… the EPA should die…

    • Cliff Beckwith

      It is still cheaper than visiting an oncologist.

      • High Ass Fault Lines

        Are oncology appointments cheaper in Alaska? What about radiotherapy? Cancer is a cunt. Wood burning causes cancer. Ergo people who burn wood are cunts.

  • joe

    buying a stove …now!

    • Cliff Beckwith

      Another Ignorant consumer who doesn’t realize the impacts of their actions.

      That’s why we need good laws to protect us from manufacturers who don’t give a damn (and should know better) and thick as shit consumers who don’t understand what they have just bought into.

      All wood stoves should come with imformation leaflets about the chemical compenents of woodsmoke and the diseases they cause. Then reading that, no consumer would buy it (unless they were dumb of selfish), and then again we need to be protected from the dumb and the selfish, and that is why prohibition makes good sense.

      The externalized costs of wood smoke pollution are just too big.

  • charlieousley

    The tree of liberty must be refreshed with the blood of tyrants and patriots, we are overdue, GOD save the Republic.Thomas Jefferson, Charles E Ousley, I will burn any product safe for heat for my family to hell with tyrants.

    • Cliff Beckwith

      Well you can’t burn wood then. It is not safe for you or your family.

      Unless you like visiting your child’s grave when they’ve died of leukaemia caused by the aromatic hydrocarbon exposure which are found in wood smoke. Benzene even gives wood smoke its characteristic smell.

      Thomas Jefferson, was a man of reason. He would have read the evidence, removed the wood burners, and installed a nice Panasonic reverse cycle air conditioner, heat pump for those cool Virginian winter evenings.

      Or are 18th century technologies where America should be stuck at? Let’s just ignore the 21st century shall we?

  • bobfairlane

    Fk the Sierra Club. They want to turn as much of America as possible into “wilderness areas” that Americans will be barred from inhabiting or even crossing.

    • Cliff Beckwith

      Except that of course is a misrepresentation of the Sierra Club.

      But why let a few facts get in the way of a dumb rant?

      • bobfairlane

        Fk you, too. You’re not fooling me! You tuesdays even sued a mountain bike park.

        • Stephanie

          Are you the same Bob Fairlane I read about in the Orange County News who is a pedophile?

  • OldNYFirefighter

    Years ago I built my own wood stove that burned extremely clean. It was connected to my boiler & produced 90% of my domestic hot water & all of my heat even though the oil burner seldom came on. There was almost no smoke as the flat plate water filled baffle condensed any moisture & products of combustion to be re-burned. No creosote buildup in the chimney at all.

    • Cliff Beckwith

      Guaranteed it wasn’t as clean as you said it was.

      No wood burning stoves ever are as clean as claimed.

    • Stephanie

      Bullshit. It would still be polluting.

  • ResearchGirl

    Do you really think EPA’s NSPS is going to do anything to stop this assault on families clean air. . See the video make sure you watch the whole thing. Both sides chime in! Just let to let you know I burn wood and so does Susan. There is no smoke coming from my chimney in the volume that comes from an Indoor wood boiler. http://video.wcny.org/video/2365087958/

  • ResearchGirl

    Do you really think EPA’s NSPS is going to do anything to stop this assault on families clean air. . See the video make sure you watch the whole thing. Both sides chime in! . http://video.wcny.org/video/2365087958/

  • Start the Revolution Today!

    It’s high time for a new American Revolution!

    • Cliff Beckwith

      An education revolution.

      • rhcrest

        Are you calling Americans dum?

        • Cliff Beckwith

          It is spelt with a b thicko.

  • NORTON

    We need to take back our country,clean all houses in DC. Time to put in good people
    at are for the AMERICAN PEOPLE.

    • Cliff Beckwith

      One way to clean the actual houses in the District of Columbia is to ban all wood burning in the District of Columbia, Virginia and Maryland. Then the good residents of DC could have cleaner air to breathe.

  • Ed Miller

    The EPA should be closed down and replaced with a government agency that understands its responsibility…to enforce laws passed by congress…not to enact it’s own rules by back channel methods that are pure over reach and supported by fringe environmental groups. Government bureaucracy in this country is out of control and needs to be squashed by Congress.

    • Cliff Beckwith

      And actually lived up to its name of Enviromental Protection Agency.

    • High Ass Fault Lines

      Actually congress is out of control, and needs to be replaced with non corrupt representatives without brown paper bags in their drawers.

      Too many republicans in congress equals a backwards failing nation.

  • Airquality Australia

    What a stupid, factually incorrect article! The change from 15 to 12 micrograms per cubic meter is a health-based air quality standard, which is still too lax compared to the World Health Organization guideline of 10 micrograms per cubic meter. Research shows increased risk of heart attacks at 7 or 8 micrograms per cubic meter.

    The only reason this affects wood stoves is that they are a major source of harmful pollution – a single wood stove is several times more polluting that the average automobile. Think about how much money you earn in 10 years. Think about how your family would feel if you died 10 years before your time from a pollution-induced heart attack, stroke or lung cancer.

    Surely it’s worth investing a small amount of the money and heartbreak from dying too early into clean, non-polluting heating that might prevent such a premature death?

    • Cliff Beckwith

      Good to see not everyone reading this article is an idiot. Good for you Airquality Australia.

      At least someone cares about issues such as premature death.

      The ignorami don’t seem to care.

  • Cliff Beckwith

    People you can heat your homes without burning wood.

    This is the dumbest article I have ever read. The threat of wood smoke to people’s health is very real. Wood smoke is 1000 times dirtier, in terms of particulate pollution, than burning natural gas. It is also 1000s of times dirtier than heating with electricity even if the electricity is from burning coal. Wood smoke is also toxic. It is highly carcinogenic, a Class 1 carcinogen (i.e it causes cancer to humans. It kills 30,000 people in the USA each year. It causes cardiovascular disease, (heart attacks and strokes), it causes lung cancer, it causes mouth and throat cancers, it has been linked to breast and bowel cancers, it causes emphysema, bronchitis, asthma, and the benzene in woodsmoke (which is at 6 times the level found in automobile emissions) causes leukaemias in both children and adults. It degrades both urban and rural air quality and it reduces peoples health and quality of life.

    The right policy would actually be complete bans on all wood burning in residential areas, and on closely settled rural areas. So the problem with the EPA regulations is that they allow too much pollution to occur, and should be tightened a whole lot further to protect public health. That 30,000 dead figure is an outrage and is as many as die in auto accidents and more than all the gun deaths (homicides and suicides) in the USA (and they’re out of control because of laws dumbly influenced by stupid libertarian ideas).

    You have lied about the science too. Carbon soot is also active as a greenhouse agent. And climate change is very much real. Only an ignoramus would believe the kind of disinformation that an ideologue like Larry Bell would write.

    Right wing cuntservatives are the most stupid, misled little dumb sheep on the planet. Grow up you ignorant little people. Libertarianism is not a valid political philosophy. It is a mental illness. We are all in this together, and when you light a fire and pollute your neighborhood with wood smoke you are assaulting your neighbors, reducing their quality of life, and being a selfish shit of a person. Get a clean form of heating, such as natural gas or electric heatpumps. If you do live remotely a long way from your neighbors, and you’re not in a valley that will support inversions, trapping the pollution, then sure wood is ok, but then you should still get the cleanest wood burner you can, because you’ll be poisoning yourself and your family, and the particulates will come into your house. Anything else would just be very stupid.

  • Lamb

    I am about to move to a remote area. I will have a wood cook stove and a wood stove for heat. I am buying older models (used and refurbished). They were built to LAST. Not last 10 or 20 years, but to last a lifetime. My nearest neighbor will be several miles away, so I doubt it will offend them.

    • Max Emptor

      If your neighbors are several miles away it probably won’t effect them. But you will be poisoning yourself. You could get a newer cleaner one. It won’t be very clean, say as bottled propane. About half of the concentration of particulates outside will seep into your house and you will suffer the ill health effects from them. But that is your call.

  • Guest

    Besides passing any regulations the

  • Robert Peterson

    The EPA can pass all the regulations it wants they also have to have the manpower and the money to enforce it.

    • Cliff Beckwith

      Or what, you;l get out your stash of little boy penis substitute weapons?

      Wanker.

      • Robert Peterson

        No dipshit it takes money lot’s of it the EPA doesn’t have it. And the resources to enforce it. I thought you mentioned you were much more educated than I. That comment puts you at the level of a 10 year old or someone with a very low IQ who thinks he’s smart. Thanks for sharing. I’m done with you

        • Cliff Beckwith

          Well raise taxes and fund the EPA better.

          I know the average income of the dipshits who read CFACT are low because there is a correlation between intelligence and income, so it won’t affect you guys.

          • Christie Nestor

            You realize you just insulted yourself as well because you are on the page. Unless you just came to troll comments, then that would make you the imbecile.

            • Cliff Beckwith

              Thanks, for pointing that out Christie. I am indeed here to make some very stupid people upset. They definitely do need a kick up the ass. Fancy anyone polluting their neighborhood with wood smoke. It’s like shitting in your own bed. That’s how stupid some of these people are, and then to frame their arguments it in the mental midgetry of libertarianism and conservatism, well they make me ill. I don’t mind doing God’s work here and telling them that they are indeed dumb pieces of shit. It’s all part of the service.

              • Christie Nestor

                God would never utilize the phrase you just used. He may point out that burning wood which is something that is completely natural is not going to cause harm to his creation but he would not use the colorful language you insisted upon using.

                • Cliff Beckwith

                  Don’t be stupid Christie.

                  Wood smoke is completely natural like radioactivity and arsenic, and infants dying.

                  Also there isn’t a god. That is a story to get 4 year olds to behave. Grow up, don’t be thick, and for fuck’s sake, don’t light a fire. You are too stupid to know what you’re doing.

  • Carmalea Steelman Bentley

    How dare the EPA. I have an outside hot water wood furnace. I can’t afford Electric or Gas heat. I live on a fixed income. I can go and cut my own wood from my property with little cost to me. It heats my hot water and my house.Or other words I will have to apply for help on paying my electric bill. It looks like the Democrats wants us to depend on them entirely. Just like the people on welfare. Sorry am an independent
    person.

    • Cliff Beckwith

      The number one cause of neighborhood complaint in the United States is outdoor wood furnaces.

      Some advice. Your neighbors hate you for stinking them out. WHy don’t you be nice and remove the offensive OWB? If you can’t afford to not use it, give them some relief by slitting your own throat.

      Your neighbors air quality depends entirely on your decisions. Trust me, spend a few days at the mercy of an OWB’s pollution, and you’ll want the selfish fucker who uses one dead too.

  • AlixIvanPain

    @Cliff Beckwith Stop ya poking at the people that belong here. You stated “Mate” which straight up means your Brit or Aussie! Sure go ahead attack my statement and show your brilliance! The SOUTH never coincided the War, and we are getting tired of the NORTH telling us what we can and can not do! Yes China and other foreign Nations are by far freer than us Americans! But you can always take freedoms from the blind! Take your profits and give them to the poor, put yourself near to the bottom of the food chain, and learn humility! Ya yanks wouldn’t have food on your table if you didn’t learn how to burn off the fields to return carbon to the soil. Tell Mass. to stop controlled burns on Maratha’s Vineyard if you don’t want pollution! EPA & DEQ have the “GREENIES” on their side that would rather see veggies on everyone’s table! Global Warming is just another stage of this earths aging process, we humans can be extinct just as the dinosaurs before us! We’re here for a minut minute! Stop deciding what others want!

    • Cliff Beckwith

      But my neighbor decides what I get to breathe. Of course I am going to call the guy a cunt.

      As for carpetbaggers telling you racist southerners to do, please try to take ti with a bit of grace, old chap. It is not nice to be nasty to black people. If someone calls you a cunt for doing so, indeed, sir you’re a cunt.

  • AlixIvanPain

    As to the water in Kentucky!! It was bound to happen someplace; it just so happened in Kentucky, some other state has Natural Gas in it’s water supply. The plant that caused the leak knew that in due time a leak would occur because the metal container would erode in time.

    “30,000 less deaths annually caused by wood smoke pollution” My guess for you Cliff go live in California and let us know how you like it in 10 years when you realize “wood burning” is the least of your concern when it comes to wetting your mouth!

  • theelviscerator

    The liberal answer is you cant live in alaska I guess, if you need to use firewoood…rofl..

  • Irvin Chase

    Its time for all the envrion”MENTAL”ist to get the hell out of this country!!! The environ”MENTAL” agenda is only costing taxpayers billions of dollars we do not have. Everything from solar power to wind power, both are the biggest jokes ever perpetrated on the US, to saving fish and wildlife , They are saving everything except the human race. But I forgot envrion”MENTAL” ist want humans to be extinct. Then what??? Well at least the environ”MENTAL” ist would be gone.

    • Cliff Beckwith

      Irvin you are a particularly dumb cunt, aren’t you?

      • Irvin Chase

        Probably Cliff. However, I love my country, have fought for our freedoms, which listening to your comment like them or not is a part of those freedoms, but i do not like the way the envrion”MENTAL”ist, greenies,treehuggers and save the earth people are screwing this country up.eviron”MENTAL”ly. Keeping our air water and soil clean and usable is great. However, if you would take the time to investigate all the green, environ”MENTAL” crap and do so with an open mind you would understand what me and other dumb cunts are telling you. But is it obvious you are a closed minded person, not a cunt cause we are good, and don’t want to listen to anyone else. Oh does that wound like the present administration in Washington??

        • Cliff Beckwith

          I am fighting for realfreedoms now. The freedom to breathe clean air.

          You are just a dumb cunt Irvin. You were probably grunt infantry, cleaning latrines, and only then, because your grades were terrible and you couldn’t get a real job. Yet you call it “fighting for freedoms”. You know jack shit.

          Clean air is the most basic human need. It is the most basic human right. If you allow that to be taken away then you are a prick. You are the opposite of of fighting for “freedom”. You don’t know what freedom is. It makes you a fascist.

          I am a hero. You are a zero.

          • Al gae

            “I am a hero.”

            Sure you are .. now move away from the keyboard slowly to avoid injury.

  • Mcat

    So last year Larry Bell wrote an article explaining just how bad PM2.5 is for all people,Particulate Matter is soot. http://www.cfact.org/2012/11/14/epa-charged-with-lethal-experiments-on-hundreds-of-unsuspecting-subjects/
    So which is the true story Larry,have you made up your mind?

  • Mcat

    Where does PM2.5 come from?

    Sources of fine particles include all types of combustion activities (motor vehicles, power plants, wood burning, etc.) and certain industrial processes. Particles with diameters between 2.5 and 10 micrometers are referred to as “coarse.” Sources of coarse particles include crushing or grinding operations, and dust from paved or unpaved roads. Other particles may be formed in the air from the chemical change of gases. They are indirectly formed when gases from burning fuels react with sunlight and water vapor. These can result from fuel combustion in motor vehicles, at power plants, and in other industrial processes.
    http://www.epa.gov/pmdesignations/faq.htm#0

  • Mcat
  • Rush Limbaugh

    I can’t believe just how dumb are the retard conservatives who think CFACT is worth reading.

  • lihartke

    Democrats are absolutely OFF THE WALL. Throw every last one of them out America!

    • Cliff Beckwith

      Wow there Stupid.The average IQ of America would go negative after that.

  • Mung Bean

    Wood smoke is physical assault.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQtzSpXTa9

    BAN WOOD BURNING. It is pissing with my liberty to enjoy my own property.

    This is the shit that you dickheads are defending.

  • Larry Bell

    These things are all over the internet – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEpPIgy0_xs

    It’s time to ban wood burning. Imagine living next door to the prick smoking out his nieghborhood there.

  • Larry Bell

    Can cause serious respiratory problems.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3JXXTpOkLI

  • Larry Bell

    We should really all learn more about the health effects of woods moke before thinking there shouldn’t be tougher regulations.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaxSgglRpLY

    I wouldn’t have written such a dumb article if I was more aware. Sorry everyone.

  • Larry Bell

    Let’s also not ignore the victims of wood smoke

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KU_AAerVzZc

  • Irvin Chase

    Looking over some of your total comments,, I am not going to get into a name calling contest with you.I am not going to lower myself to that level. I am however, going to say this, if you are a rich capitalist, people like me and thousands of other men and women put the uniform of our country on to protect people like you. We fought and some died. Further, we have given you the right to say what you want, to whom ever you want, whenever you want. People like you make me sick. The only time the air is nasty in this country is when people like you open your mouth to make comments like you have not only to me but to all who have written on this subject. Get a life Cliff!!

    • Cliff Beckwith

      No you didn’t, that’s the lie they tell you so you’re happy to be cannon fodder. Smart people, employable people realize this. That’s just the shit we tell the dumb ones. PS. Freedom is freedom from woodsmoke

      • Irvin Chase

        No comment to THE #1″IDIOT” Cliff!!

        • Cliff Beckwith

          Yay I won an award.

  • b.russell

    They should ban cars; they put off fare more pollutants and what are they going to do about forest fires? Now lets see; cant collect rain water, cant have a backyard garden, cant heat your house with a carbon neutral heat source. I see this as an infringement on my pursuit of happiness, I can not phantom people not seeing any fault in this logic.

    • ErrorPointererOuter

      Wrong #1. Wood smoke pollutes way more than cars. Use a wood burner for 1 night and it is like driving a SUV 15,000 miles.

      Wrong#2 Burning wood is not carbon neutral – there are methane emissions and the soot is a powerful carbon agent.

      But good use of the word phantom as a verb.

    • BAB

      what about “fathom”?

  • Viper

    Gas think about that is it ok??? It is all about dam money is all they care about.

    • Cliff Beckwith

      Less particulate pollution though. So your argument is pretty effed in the head.

  • Obama-monkey

    I wonder if an EPA representative will come to my house to heat it for me when the power goes out?

    • Cliff Beckwith

      No dickhead, but your neighbors might come with a baseball bat when you smoke them out of their own house.

      i.e think before you stink.

      And why should one night a year of power outage (if that) mean we have to have month long air quality problems?

      • Obama-monkey

        “Dickhead” – clearly you’re not capable of an adult debate.
        “Smoke them out of their own house” – I’ve never had a single complaint.
        “come with a baseball bat” – They would lose as they would be bringing a baseball bat to a gun fight. We have the right to defend ourselves from people who threaten us with weapons.
        “one night a year of power outage” – I don’t heat with wood due to outages.
        “month long air quality problems” – 4,000,000 years of humans heating with wood and now it’s a pollution problem? Prove it. Or, don’t…. I’m sure you’d rather have me crank up the fossil fuel fired heater.

  • Onteo

    Screw the EPA. Come and take my stove.

  • Andres Carter

    On January 3, 2014, EPA proposed revisions to the residential wood heater new source performance standards (NSPS) under Section 111 of the Clean Air Act. The draft revisions apply to new heaters ONLY and do not apply to existing wood stoves and other wood heaters installed in peoples’ homes. Go to www2.epa.gov/residential-wood-heaters to review and comment on the proposed revisions before final standards are issued. EPA will accept written comments for 90 days after publication of the proposal in the Federal Register.

  • Scott Denard

    So does this mean they are banning fireplaces and open fires also? Seems like if one is bad all are bad so they need to ban building any homes with fireplaces and all campfires also. God help those who are lost in the wildness and need to cook or stay warm.

  • Godson54739

    Now, I’m not doing any Name calling , because that’s pure ignorance in
    itself. So! Let’s get down to Brass tacks here and Deal with the subject
    of Air Pollution. To all you Environmentalists out there who think you
    have all the answers. Big city pollution has nothing to do with Number
    one, Second hand smoke from Cigarets, or does it have any thing to do
    with wood smoke. What it does have to do with is the fact that, How many
    vehicles run through that town or city? How Many Diesel Trucks do
    Delivery’s? How many Diesel Locomotives do you have running product in
    and out of your city? Now that those questions are asked? What is the
    nutritional intake of these people? What is their diet comprised of?
    What kind of supplements (Vitamins, Minerals and the such) are they
    taking daily. What kind of meds are being supplied to the Area and from
    whom? We Humans are totally ignorant of what is going on around us
    today. Do you realize Dog food has more nutritional value to it then the
    food you buy from the store? Diabetes is caused from mineral
    deficiencies, Cancer is caused by Vitamin, and Mineral deficiencies, so
    are most ailments out there. Now? What I really wish to Know is this.
    Are you gonna pay my heating bill when the temps here hit 40-60 below?
    Propane is at over $4.00 a gallon here. It cost a friend over $4000.00
    to fill his tank which lasts him roughly a month, in the extreme cold.
    You gonna pay for me to prepare my food and heat My home? You wish to
    complain about Air Pollution? Start with anything that is Diesel out
    there, dumping raw fuel into the air we breath. Do you realize a Diesel
    engine is less then 60% efficient? Now that’s a small part of the
    Pollution problem. Now you go to a Diesel Train engine that transports
    some 78% of the Produce in this Country. They dump over 4 million parts
    of raw Diesel into the air every minute that they are under power. I’ve
    heard People moving out into the country complain about a Dairy Farmer
    spreading his Cow Manure out on his fields! Even watched the court
    proceedings as he tried to Sue the farmer for Polluting his air with
    that farm fresh fragrance. The Judge told him to Move back to the City,
    if he didn’t like the smell.
    Ignorance is Bliss! You need to
    learn what you are complaining about before you open your mouths. The
    Medical field in this Country is Called Medical Practice for a reason.
    Because they use us, as their own personal Ginnea Pigs to Practice on.
    Ask any Scientist that is practicing Science. They will tell you that
    Science is not Exact, but is only in Theory. The EPA in this country is a
    Joke, Just like the FDA. The Poisons that they allow these asshole to
    put into our Food and drugs? Are an Monstrosity. The additives in most
    Pops that the public drinks robs your body of Calcium, because it’s the
    only way our body can break it down. You need also to follow the Radio
    active cloud that runs over us now constantly. Because Radiation is what
    causes cancer. Talk to the Government about the Chem trails coming off
    of the Jets that Fly over our heads? Aluminum Oxide is one of the
    Ingredients in that trail, they use it to seed the Clouds to make it
    rain, (So they Say) Causes Cancer. Let alone all of the Biological
    ingredients in it. Bola-Bola Fever, Hoof and Mouth, Anthrax, just to
    name a few. Where the sickness coming from? Look to your Federal
    Government. Look to the soil the Farmers are growing our food in. It’s
    been depleted of all mineral and nutritional values since back in the
    60′s if you listen to the Scientists. You wish to stop wood burning?
    Work on the other things first. Because if you go with wood fires? You
    best start hopping on all of those forest fires and brush fires that
    criss-cross the world because that smoke might reach your Lungs and
    cause asthma. Ask the people who are burning , whatever it is that is making people sick? What kind of wood are they burning? 10 to 1 says it is some form of Construction Grade Woods. They are the Only woods that Produce the the types of gases that cause these types of Illnesses. Benzene Gases, Arsenic Gases, Ect…. I fought Wildfires all over this Country and been down wind of a couple of thousand of them. Why am I not on a Respirator, As it shows in these Videos? The Information I just posted is available to any of you
    who feel like looking. What it boils down to? Is how many Idiots can
    they get to back them, and doing it behind closed doors to get it done.
    That should be and is the Bitch most will have , as well they should.
    Have a Blessed day one and all.

  • Guardian

    Wow! An old comment board! Typical politicians and bureaucrats. They want to fix the little guy (5% of the real problem) and take away more rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness by taking away our wood stoves while the main culprit, producing 80% of the bad air, is industrial big money corporations that donate large sums of money into the wallets of these jokers! What a crock!

  • FrankDavis

    My first time here – Just made a contribution to CFACT for the Climate Depot. Hope it will live up to its goals! The wood-stove imposition is scandalously hurtful to so many people. As is the ethanol/gasohol imposition. The problems caused by EPA (and also, Corps of Engineers) overreaching are not exposed often enough. It is good to see that Sen. Vitter (R-La.) is starting an action to expose that pernicious “sue and settle” loop. But, what was the La. Atty-General’s response? Did he join the effort? Perhaps you can update what is happening with the FOIA info. (The EPA is notorious for ignoring FOIA requests.)

  • Undecider

    Any concern about the nano-particle metals being sprayed into the atmosphere under geo-engineering programs? They want to get the smoke out the air and fluoride in the water.

  • GRAMPA

    An American breaks over four laws every day. The goal is so when everyone is guilty and a convicted felon they cannot buy or even be in a home with a gun. We have back door gun control.
    Grampa

  • disqus_tKUiAezKl2

    Is it any wonder they’re winning when we act like fools?

  • Timothy_Bair

    And ironically putting thousands in the heart of liberal territory, Vermont, who work for foundries like Vermont Castings…out of work

    It is this company and others who have been at the forefront of clean burning technologies for wood stoves. Clearly the purpose of this is to put them out of business in favor of foreign competition

    We will find out who is buying off whom

    We will find out how many at EPA are receiving bribes

  • flamegonesilver

    TIME TO GET RID OF THE FREAKIN’ EPA! We don’t NEED any more ‘LAWS’ from a govt. dept. gone MAD with a bunch of CONTROL FREAKS! ENFORCE the laws that help the ‘common’ people! And not some BOO-YEAH-YO-YO-HEADS, that don’t know what the HADES is REALLY goin’ on!
    1 more thing folks…..WhytheHELL does the EPA have a SWAT team for? TERRORIST BEAVERS BUILDING DAMN DAMS?
    PUDDING HEADS!

    • flamegonesilver

      YEAH…I’M O.P’ed!

  • peckerwood

    Fortunately,most people in the more remote rural areas that need to heat with wood can tell the EPA to fcuk off, as we all should, and likely get away with it for years.

  • Nita Shafer

    Da Comrades… ve at ze EPA only vish to keep you safe.

  • Fedupwithpretense

    The comments on this article reveal a bigger problem than wood smoke — it is the smoke that smart a$$es blow in your ear!
    Cliff Beckwith is a good example of a robot programed for arrogance, self-righteousness, superiority and pomposity. That alone is sufficiently provocative to draw out the darker side of people with some commonsense, who, with him, finally resort to the violence of vilification and hatred that pollutes more than the air and destroys everything that would be constructive.
    At that point we are exposed to a pollution of values that makes all the EPA pontification even more pathetic: a value system that puts the self first and tries to hide that fact behind a crisp know-it-all posture that means to pass dictates as divine deliverances.
    This “deity posture” is belied by the unintended consequences of cookie-cutter imposition of pretense to wisdom and concern for others by the likes of Beckwith and the EPA. It also is exposed by the quick resort of others to a violent appeal to personal freedom — untrammeled by responsibility.
    The Leftists like Beckwith delight in making money, boasting of their personal integrity and flaunting their personal self-deification. The Libertarians are no less well informed and pompous about their “freedoms” (devoid of responsibility = “license”), so we have a wicked “competition of the gods” that is an embarrassment to all who notice it in passing.
    The game is resolved not by facts, reason or even humility, but by attempts at personal/institutional dominance, with those closest to the instruments of power usually succeeding and feeding the fires of wrath in others.
    Yes, there are two kinds of environmentalist: The first exploits the environment at the expense of and for the purpose of dominance of others, while regarding themselves, paradoxically as lords, masters and sustainers of Gaia, their focus of idolatry. The second sees nature as merely a creature, indeed “red with tooth and claw”, that needs both protection and discipline, since, if left alone, it cares nothing for man or beast, but only its own proliferation.
    So far as I can see, Beckwith and his vile detractors fit most comfortably into the former category and create a climate of discourse that is toxic in a fundamental way to both man and nature. Technically, it is “axiological toxicity” — a deadly poison.
    Enough is enough — except to those who revere and relish themselves at the expense of both nature and man under a veil of pretense.

  • Howard

    New Zealand burns 70% of the coal it mines for numerous industries including for most of its electricity. I am confident that coal is a major pollution contributor in New Zealand. Coal smoke is far more toxic than woodsmoke, according to the research I’ve seen. http://ehs.sph.berkeley.edu/krsmith/publications/HC%20woodsmoke%20report%20Mar%2031%2005(rev).pdf

    I think this article is a coal industry misdirect slamming Greens who are much more sensitive to the social consequences of policy. Phasing out bad wood burning tech in a fair, supply side manner, is reasonable. I do hope our militarized sheriff’s department isn’t going to come take my wood burner away.

  • David L

    Classic Democrat treatment of the poor. Eliminate low skill jobs, inflate prices of common goods & services by raising Corporation taxes, & now illegalize the only way many of them can heat their homes. EPA has got to go.

  • https://www.facebook.com/cheskeyactor Christopher Heskey

    Well what a way to keep the poor as poor. Oh and lets make the larger companies even more money!!!

  • Carriersailor

    As long as the golf cart Muslim’s gong show Is In the White House there will be more of this garbage.

  • Gloria Bouillion

    Free in America? Right free to do exactly what all these fools can think of to hurt the poor. What is the EPA? E=exceptional, P=Pain, A=Azz!

  • USSA

    look at these idiots arguing, simple solution, ban trees! It’s for the children!

  • CJG

    Personally I believe that using wood whether in pellet form or raw wood is still safer for the environment than the way other fuels are consumed. I used to help shovel off slag coal at my parents house in OH, back in the 60′s. It was always a mess. Yet we had a wooded area where we harvested fire wood from there too.. My father always took to downing the dead trees whether standing or not. That stuff burnt well and produced little outtake from the furnace. My brother lived a mile away and used a pellet stove. Later the cost of those pellets exceeded the value of dry field corn, so he burnt that
    for heat in the winter, it too was cleaner than wood. Modern furnaces and air tight fireplaces may not look so inviting but they are still a viable source of heat.

  • momsaid

    Could you edit/fix a mistake in the article? You indicate that ‘Puget Sound, WA…is a city. It’s a body of water.